LET THE FLAME BURN 4EVER.....

sian

topic is locked til further notice,this topic will become a "flaming" for the entire players who particapted today enjoying the rubbish format.Every1 are allowed to flame and post complain,more details will be posted later at 1st post


staff member who wanna flame just carry on but dont unlock 1st

Seriously. But there are some issues that I wish to mention about player's attitute towards TIME MANAGEMENT.

As you all know time management is of utmost importance and purposely dragging time away [like a few distinguished players in the tournament have done and I do not wish to arrow anyone but I think you guys will know it is anyway]

eg. People REQUESTING for timeout [my friend was a victim of this] and People playing decks that require a lot of time [there's one VERY significant deck played] but yet still taking their own sweet time.

Woah round 1 timeout dam long liao still got 1 person playing [self touching somemore]

and that results in the lack of time AND WTF IM IN TOP 16 BUT ONLY TOP 8 only a few will understand how I feel, probably skydraz and the rest of the top16

If you are mentioning the dude with the countdown deck he took only at most an additional 5 mins into sudden death and plus he only did 2 time over wins. so thats 15 mins max if you take into account of the time on side decking. Oh wait that was me.

Btw, there are other people who played a NORMAL deck and still went into sudden death anyway.

Just because someone touched themself into time out and last minute changes has to be made, it further proves the poor time management in which situations where sudden deaths and time outs are not taken into consideration.

And then the swiss pairing system, if I am not wrong, it only takes a click to do a "pair" and another click to "print" and then going over to the pillar to paste it up. Yesterday, it took slightly longer than that to actually do the steps above. Maybe the person behind the computer is busy trying to adjust some stuff, I wouldn't know

Suggestion: Get bigger space such that one round don't have to be played in 2 waves. JJ have been organising the tournament for so many years and they still don't understand that? I would tell Jimmy myself but you guys are the organisers and I think the issue will come up in the next tournament meeting or something.

Oh and also, it is rumored you were the guy who got the walkover in the controversial round 2. Care to comment?

Well, Extra Win deck is a deck that orginated from Japan, and is played over there. I dont see any big issue over there with such decks. Isnt that the whole issue of why there are rulings of time per round, etc? Any tournament has to be planned based on the full time per round, plus some extra time for the last 3 rounds to be played.

It is totally the organizer's fault, when they have over 100+ players each year in the tournament, yet only get a location that can cater to less then that. Then ends up that they have to hold double for each round, and end up insufficient time to be there. With a bigger location they can handle even an 8 round swiss with the same time spent! Nobody would have complained then. Alternatively, they could have carried on with the old 1st round elimination, then carry on with Swiss if there was not enough space. Of course, if they felt too many clan members might be killed off in that first round, then well.....

PS: I notice a trend between the people defending them, and the ones spotted with pairing errors. Note: score of 1-0 and received bye? STRONG!

Kinda an ad for the new blog as well, heh, but for more details on cheating spotted, you may view following
Dueling Days Blog
Cheating Days Blog

Not that I know of anything behind the computer. If I had already known about the walkover I got in the 2nd round I wouldn't have got so fed up because I wanted to play. And what's so controversial about the second round? A walkover wouldn't be good because it screws my scores up. And besides, I don't need walkovers to get into top8/top16.

I paid 10 bucks to play, not to sit down and do nothing/waiting for walkover. Get over with that idea.

One thing - If SMU lan lan dun want give seats then MOV/WOJJ also suck thumb cannot do anything.

DSummon wrote:

Well, Extra Win deck is a deck that orginated from Japan, and is played over there. I dont see any big issue over there with such decks. Isnt that the whole issue of why there are rulings of time per round, etc? Any tournament has to be planned based on the full time per round, plus some extra time for the last 3 rounds to be played.

It is totally the organizer's fault, when they have over 100+ players each year in the tournament, yet only get a location that can cater to less then that. Then ends up that they have to hold double for each round, and end up insufficient time to be there. With a bigger location they can handle even an 8 round swiss with the same time spent! Nobody would have complained then. Alternatively, they could have carried on with the old 1st round elimination, then carry on with Swiss if there was not enough space. Of course, if they felt too many clan members might be killed off in that first round, then well.....

PS: I notice a trend between the people defending them, and the ones spotted with pairing errors. Note: score of 1-0 and received bye? STRONG!

Kinda an ad for the new blog as well, heh, but for more details on cheating spotted, you may view following
Dueling Days Blog
Cheating Days Blog

Hmm well I don't know much about mantis system but... I do know that the pairings are screwed up. I don't understand why a person with 1 win is being paired with a person with 0 wins...

DS, finding a location that big is easily said than done. If it were so easy, MOV would have found a suitable location long before you guys did. Not to mention costs incurred. [Which I am totally oblivious of]

Well, you are talking to someone who has previously organized the tournaments before and is head judge, and has experience using the Mantis system. So replying to your comments here.

1. If no idea of how the mantis system works then dont comment on it. It is IMPOSSIBLE for the mantis system to do the following in an auto pairing:
- Give a person with 1-0 a bye in the 2nd round
- Pair up the same opponent twice (Unless you play like, 4 round swiss and you have only 3 opponents)
- Pair down when there are people on the same level available (If only 2 people have 1-0 left, the Mantis pairs them together, not pair them both to people with 0-1)
- Considering all the above has happened, anybody who has even REMOTELY used the Mantis system will know that something in the background has happened

2. Location is hard to find because of the following
- Organizer is cheap. Its not hard to find a location, its just more expensive to find bigger location obviously. But that comes with budget constraints so we shall not touch on that, which brings us to my next point
- Hence, do a single eli first, then do swiss all the way, so that you only need to the swiss 1 time for each round, not Swiss round 1 part 2, Swiss round 2 part 1, etc. If you plan it like that, obviously you are going to end up with insufficient time
- As discussed, they should have planned enough time, especially when it is officially known there is such a deck like Extra Win. Not allocate lesser time then official tournament rulings, then blame people for playing such decks. I dont like slow decks as well but it is no excuse.

3. In response to your talk about why YOU got the bye when you have 1-0
- Talk is cheap. We have no interest in what you feel about playing or not, end point is you got it when it should not even happen in the first place for a clean pairing (Refer to point 1). Since its obviously rigged, who knows?
- The point here is not whether it is you or whoever got that bye with a 1-0 score (Common knowledge that you belong that that group does not help your case) The main point, which I still refer to point 1, is that it is IMPOSSIBLE (I repeat), for Mantis to do something like that when you do a clean auto pairing. The cheaters behind the computer gave you the bye without your knowledge? Too bad, live with it, because thats the way this works, it was still something that is not supposed to happen.

Obviously I know that someone with 1 win cannot be paired with one that has 0 win right? Kinda obvious though.

Well I shall not comment on further. Do what you want to do, say what you want to say.

And stop sounding like I am cheating. That's a big insult.

Thank you for agreeing with my points that the Mantis system does not such pairings without interference manually by the program users with the pairing.

And as mentioned, I did not say its your fault and dont mean it that way at all as well. All that Im saying whatever they did in the background ended up helping you and its sad, but you will have to live with that fact. Im against the ones behind the computer and behind the event, not against you.

imo players having matches being rigged to the max is more set LoL!!! IE to say ME!

FLAME ON!

Agree with rick..

Never seen such cases happen before.. Participants entered a Tourney and then win all the way and ' You are not in top 8 ' and they went home without lossing a match...zzZ

Why is there sudden change into 4 round of swiss and as wells top 8 instead of top 16 ?

Is it really lack of time or the Management really C.M.I or not up to standards?

Organising Tourney have to consider few parts ..

- Numbers of participants
- Format
- Time
- Budget

There might be more factors to consider frm what we able to see but if all these were considered and the Tourney was confirmed to be held..

I dont tink ' No time ' or ' Too Many ppl ' are valid or better reasons for last minute changes that we or participants to be hear from the Management Side ?

Seriously , IF winning all rounds and stills cant enter into top 8 or top 16 in a Tourney .. Whats the point of playing a tourney? Or whats the Point of using mantis system?

.............

Whats a Mantis? For easier pairing compared to the Manual Pairing .. It can seens fair sometimes as 'bye' would offer to the lowest win , the bad part is the T1 T2 T3.. If ppl drop or etc might sabotage ur standings.

With 100 plus ppl joining .. I really cant believe we having 5 Rounds of swiss..

Why does SJC (yugioh) , DarkMoon Faire , Realms Championship ( wow ) , 10 k , PCQ ( Vs system ) have 100++ and more people joining compare to our yugioh but why they dont have such problems?

I seriously hope that Management in future will consider about X amt of participants shld play X amt of swiss..

zzZz....

DSummon wrote:

Thank you for agreeing with my points that the Mantis system does not such pairings without interference manually by the program users with the pairing.

And as mentioned, I did not say its your fault and dont mean it that way at all as well. All that Im saying whatever they did in the background ended up helping you and its sad, but you will have to live with that fact. Im against the ones behind the computer and behind the event, not against you.

Err... correction I did not agree with your points... I merely said it wasn't possible for such pairings to occur. I already said I don't know mantis very well yet so like you said I have no right to comment on it.

And I can't agree more with jeff. What's the point of playing so hard if you can't have a go at the top?

Err... they paid 10 bucks for the tourney, got an all win but nv qualify for tops isnt it abit unfair...

i also felt unfair for my fren who's in the 10th place . it's the second time he is in top 16 and there is no TOP16 match! wtf.

Ron wrote:

And I can't agree more with jeff. What's the point of playing so hard if you can't have a go at the top?

Agree-ing with jeff admits the wrongs of what happened in tourney?

Fail tourney is fail...

Makes people lost confidence in major events...

Hurray to more local shop tourneys!!! (Jurong, Khatib, AMK, Yishun, etc...)

Clarence wrote:

Ron wrote:

And I can't agree more with jeff. What's the point of playing so hard if you can't have a go at the top?

Agree-ing with jeff admits the wrongs of what happened in tourney?

lol clarence.. does it matter, the "king"'s doing has been well known for all the major event he had held already

lol. Ron it isn't your fault that you got a bye for your 2nd round. As you said, you didn't know what was happening behind the monitor.

But perhaps all I got to say that the tournament is rigged. And perhaps a bigger place could be found to host tournaments. But since there is a huge budget restraint. That wouldn't be possible for quite awhile.

Plus, I think there was a huge ruling mistake for [Charge of The Light Brigarde] If anyone was there to hear about it.

When you activate your Charge of the Light Brigade and overturn the last few lightlord monsters in your deck into the grave as Charge's cost. You miss target and burn the charge and to reveal ur deck to your opponent to confirm this. However, in yesterday's ruling, you put the monsters back into the deck. Hmmmm, was any checking of rulings being done yesterday? I was lucky that I did not get into such a situation. However I do feel that the rulings were not being checked properly and the person suffering from the bad outcome of such a ruling is unfair to him/her.

To my reference to such a ruling. Here is my link http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Card_Rulings:Charge_of_the_Light_Brigade .

Please do correct me if I am wrong about anything that I have said so far. =)

Quote :

And I can't agree more with jeff. What's the point of playing so hard if you can't have a go at the top?

If u cant agree means u agreed that its alright for the two 4 wins people ( full win ) to go home without any prizes? And its not due to the Management fault as what i have mention?

Ron wrote:

Err... correction I did not agree with your points... I merely said it wasn't possible for such pairings to occur. I already said I don't know mantis very well yet so like you said I have no right to comment on it.

And I can't agree more with jeff. What's the point of playing so hard if you can't have a go at the top?

Erm, you yourself already said. It is NOT possible for such pairings to occur. As I said, you agree with me that such pairings are IMPOSSIBLE without manual assistance. Thats the only point you I said you agree with me on and no mention of my other points. Please read above. Anyway, you, and anyone else in this forum dont even need to know mantis well to agree with me.

Anyway, whatever I need to say, since the topic has been opened up, will be said by everyone. Nuff said.

Edit: On the side line, I would like to see whoever on the polls who voted this is a clean tournament to own up and defend the organizers if he even dares to. That should be interesting.

Lol If i was in sg , i win 4-0 and dont get into top 16 or watever , i sure find fault d.

Even Akira had a pair down due to system error in round 3.... He had a 2-0 record but had to fight me wif a 1-1 record... I dun think mantis will make this kind of mistakes often, unless there was something done to it.

before the first game start dam funny.

MOV members were gathered into a room ( beside settle's cafe one ) for duno what reason.
when they tried to get out, the door was lock. every1 outside saw, but seems like no1(non-MOV) wanted to even help them out

fireowners wrote:

Even Akira had a pair down due to system error in round 3.... He had a 2-0 record but had to fight me wif a 1-1 record... I dun think mantis will make this kind of mistakes often, unless there was something done to it.

Mantis will do that sometimes when there is an odd number. Example you have 5 guys with 2-0, and 5 guys with 1-1. There will be ONE and only ONE 2-0 guy who will be paired down with a 1-1 guy.

However, when you have 3~4 as in the case of the 2nd round where 3~4 1-0 guys got paired down to 0-1 guys instead of fighting among themselves (As in 1-0 fight 1-0, then 0-1 fight 0-1), then obviously cheating skill has happened again!

Ball-Snow wrote:

before the first game start dam funny.

MOV members were gathered into a room ( beside settle's cafe one ) for duno what reason.
when they tried to get out, the door was lock. every1 outside saw, but seems like no1(non-MOV) wanted to even help them out

this goes to show how " well respected " they are in singapore yugioh players' mind.

i hope they didnt damage the door while force opening it.

it is really sad for ppl who had full wins and yet they are being screw down juz for the reason "no time"... wat's the point of playing swiss if full win also can't go into the top..?

and the ruling for charge of light brigade is more "nth to say" ... wat kind of ruling is this ... go back to deck?

i hope the organiser will improve instead of getting worse...

Ball-Snow wrote:

before the first game start dam funny.

MOV members were gathered into a room ( beside settle's cafe one ) for duno what reason.
when they tried to get out, the door was lock. every1 outside saw, but seems like no1(non-MOV) wanted to even help them out

This guy is probably the saddest. 4-0, but end up in 9th place with no Top 16.

Also, it's blatantly obvious that 'no time' was an excuse. Start so late, space so small, and mantis SOMEHOW take soooooooo long to do pairings.

And yup, rulings side also a bit, sad. I managed to do Book of Moon on Judgement Dragons thrice.

Random Link: http://entertainment.upperdeck.com/op/mantis/default.aspx

Proves several points that DS made earlier regarding MANTIS

i think we should all sign a pertition.LOL.

Ball-Snow wrote:

before the first game start dam funny.

MOV members were gathered into a room ( beside settle's cafe one ) for duno what reason.
when they tried to get out, the door was lock. every1 outside saw, but seems like no1(non-MOV) wanted to even help them out

LOL was there too, laughing like mad!

the playmat is nice though

yes, compared to the many other times tat they jus gave us a drink =\

But seriously,many of the people couldn't get the playmats due to the NOT ENOUGH excuse(they didn't want to give the playmat at all in the first place)
Secondly,utter rubbish format 3x2win being paired with 3x1win and 4round swiss+top8finals?
Thirdly,No time?Seriously do they even put enough effort to make sure theres enough forms for such an important event?its either they don't even get the importance of it or they just can't be bothered with.
Fourthly,Epic fail rulings,the charge thing,pity that guy who got caught in this ruling fail situation.
seriously if this were to happen again i doubt anyone would even be bothered to join ANY event with the MOV hosting

on the side note:i really really pity the 2x4win people

after their great leader's win during 2004 they despo for another person mah.
oh well, tis is not the time, STILLl.(ris lo )

seriously if these were to continue i wonder if there will still be any official tournaments held with ruling TOTAL fail+screwed up hosts

LOL BOOMZ

Anyways, we should all write a petition to Konami JP (not SG, because it's basically sending the petition back to MOV's hands), and tell them about the current situation that we are facing. That would work much better.

True,i seriously think that a petition should be made to Konami JP about the total failure host that do not even take pride in events that they are hosting themselves

Yes, we need to write a petition, stating how highly inefficient MOV is. If Konami wants to see new and more players playing Yu-Gi-Oh!, obviously an effort must be made. I feel that MOV did not make a good job this time round, even though I must admit that they have put in effort. Tournaments must be fair and unbiased, so each and every pairing MUST be clear and the results must be shown to the public. The clarity is not seen in MOV's pairings, and rulings were also very much incorrect.

Totally agree with you,but imo they don't even care about the importance of the event+TOO MANY MAN-MADE ERRORS if anyone get what i mean

I pity those 2 ppl who got 4 wins just because of these things, there are many ppl who i think that are good enuff just cant get into the top 16. Therefore this leads to more hatred and........ Dun haf to say....

Quote :

But seriously,many of the people couldn't get the playmats due to the NOT ENOUGH excuse(they didn't want to give the playmat at all in the first place)

there were onl 50 mats to be given out to the 1st 50 players,the news didnt spread too much because if too many people know about it thenalot will chiong in the morning

Ball-Snow wrote:

after their great leader's win during 2004 they despo for another person mah.
oh well, tis is not the time, STILLl.(ris lo )

huh who win ?

Quote :

yes, compared to the many other times tat they jus gave us a drink =\

Most event held at settlers / SMU will be given a drink ^^" usually..

Wow etc.. I believe General Orders shld have as wells.

After chat with the Konami guy =)

Then i realise..

Actually Konami has always encourages us to join tourney which actually giving us stuffs as door gifts.. For now is Platmats ..but for last time ? where are the stuffs ?

Maybe in the past the the gifts were kept?

Thats up for everyone to notice ^^" or work it out ^^" ..~~

kKbz wrote:

Quote :

yes, compared to the many other times tat they jus gave us a drink =\

Most event held at settlers / SMU will be given a drink ^^" usually..

Wow etc.. I believe General Orders shld have as wells.

After chat with the Konami guy =)

Then i realise..

Actually Konami has always encourages us to join tourney which actually giving us stuffs as door gifts.. For now is Platmats ..but for last time ? where are the stuffs ?

Maybe in the past the the gifts were kept?

Thats up for everyone to notice ^^" or work it out ^^" ..~~

2009 msia giving boxes as door gifts... is this informative?

flaming will not do us much gd let just hope that they can improve on it and admit their mistakes bah dats all =) hope that next time will be a better ones XD

Quote :

flaming will do us much gd let just hope that they can improve on their hacks and will not ever not even once admit their mistakes bah dats all =) hope that next time will be a better ones XD

fixed

LoL.. I doubt there will be a next time for the same thing to happen.

It could be worse fyi ^^" ..

But Seriously,
Effects and ruling are all gotten from a website called
YUGIOH.WIKIA.COM
A made up by players
just for players.

In the FInals, YOU can even see a laptop at each table, Using Wikia as reference.
isnt that like fail?
AS MOV, they should cultivate their own database
Dun they noe even a three years old idiot can change the information?
Even a Blazewing butterfly,must make me ask 3 people and still wait 5mins just to get results.



ALSO, the point of NO Time is dumb can?
They are supposed to calculate times for the round + sum allowance time,
for those sudden death players.
ALSO, Information Was Not Clearly given
not clearly.
there are players trading that the corner and was not able to hear the announcement can?
NICE 1:D
GOOD JOB MAN!